I am so excited to welcome today’s guest.
Eagle-eyed readers might recall that Kathleen Paley has actually visited here before!
Last year, Kathleen joined me for a conversation about gratitude, minimalism, frugality, and financial independence. At the time, she was still working as a BigLaw litigator and hosting a podcast called The Minimal(ish) Mom. Early retirement was very much part of her plan… but it was still in the future.
A lot has changed since then.
Kathleen is now officially retired (in her 40s!), and her podcast has a new name and a slightly different focus. The Reframe explores our relationships with time, money, stuff, work, and the many assumptions we inherit about what a successful life is supposed to look like.
And, earlier this week, the tables were turned: I was a guest on The Reframe, where Kathleen interviewed me about our family’s extended European adventure. It seemed like the perfect opportunity to invite her back to my blog to provide a full update.
Last time we “talked”, Kathleen was working toward financial independence and early retirement.
This time, I wanted to know: What does early retirement actually feel like once you get there?
Below is a fun interview full of details about what she misses (and emphatically does not miss!) about being a lawyer, how retirement has changed her marriage and family life, whether she still sets goals, how she spends her time and money, what she thinks the FIRE movement gets wrong, and why—for her!—grocery shopping is now one of life’s great pleasures.
You can connect with Kathleen on Instagram and via her podcast, The Reframe.
Welcome, Kathleen!
Kathleen Paley on Early Retirement, FIRE, and Life After BigLaw
Q. Last time you visited my blog, early retirement was still the goal. What does it feel like to be on the other side of that experience?
It’s both grander and more banal than I ever could have imagined, all at once. Both can be true.
On the grander side: holy moly, remembering multiple times per day that I am FREE of the office, the politics, the stress, the demands, the commute, the conflict? Magic.
(On the point of conflict, not everyone will have this. But I was a litigator at a big firm, and unlike most jobs, in litigation you have an actual opponent. There’s another person on the other side of the “v.” whose job is to make your life unpleasant. Thank God most jobs don’t have that! It can be… not great.)
I love knowing that I can structure my days, and that I can stop rushing. For twenty years, life was a constant drumbeat of hurry hurry hurry. Silencing that drumbeat is glorious.
But on the banal side: somehow, I still don’t feel like I have loads of free time! That might sound nutty, but it’s true. The days are pretty full. To some degree, they’re full with things I used to semi-ignore. The house and gardens and dogs and kids are absolutely benefitting from a more attentive version of me. The days are also filled with things I’ve intentionally added to bring joy: more volunteer work, more time with my mom, moving my body, more time outside. Put these things together, and the days are pretty full. At the end of each day, I wonder, “wow, how did it pass so quickly?” [This was the first thing my mom noted about retirement: I feel just as busy as I did when I was working full-time! Tasks expand to fill the time we have, while the content of those tasks may look different depending on the season of life. The biggest difference seems to be the autonomy. Back to my parents: my mom was a nurse, and within a few weeks of retiring she was in Africa volunteering in a prenatal clinic. She could have stayed home to knit and do puzzles, but with her newfound flexibility, she and my dad decided to head off on a months-long humanitarian volunteer gig. Retirement can be very busy indeed! I’d also add that doing something this big right away was a great decision for them; health complications meant even a few years later, it wouldn’t really have been an option and they have no regrets about doing the big things they wanted to do in retirement as early as possible!]
Q. Do you remember the first morning you woke up and realized, I don’t have to report to work anymore? What did you do?
Yes, it was January 1, 2026! My final day in the office was December 31st, and I stayed — pretty much alone on that holiday eve — until around 4 PM, then I left in tears. Walking away from the only career and only professional employer I’d known felt wild. I knew it was right, but that didn’t mean it wasn’t a little scary. [The two emotions are most certainly not mutually exclusive! Big decisions, even when we know they’re the right ones, can feel understandably overwhelming.]
On January 1, I woke up with the utterly UNcomplicated, completely thrilling feeling that I was really and truly FREE. Nobody could demand that I join a call, or take a deposition, or travel to yet another trial or hearing thousands of miles away. All those times I’d boarded planes with a pit in my stomach, wanting to be home? Done!
So what did I do, realizing this upon waking? I cried. It sounds cheesy as hell, but I cried tears of gratitude and joy. I was a good lawyer — a really good lawyer! — but it came at a huge cost to my inner peace. So on January 1 when nobody could make me do anything lawyering anymore, I cried from sheer relief and joy! [I feel like this is the most organic response possible to decades of stress!!! Nothing is more cathartic to me than a good, soul-clearing sob session.]
Q. Was there a specific moment when you knew you were ready to retire, or did you have to make the leap while still feeling a bit uncertain?
The early retirement decision was a gradual revelation as my husband and I evaluated our priorities. I think that’s pretty common for many early retirees. There’s no single lightning bolt moment. Instead, the way you think about your life and your time and your priorities gradually shifts.
One of the many wonderful things about having a smart, kind, devoted partner is that you have exciting conversations about “what do we want life to look like?” My husband and I adore this kind of ideating and family life design. So we spent a decade planning to retire early.
But what is “early?” At first, we thought it would be our mid-50s. Then maybe late 40s, if we were lucky. But as we ran models and tracked our spending, we realized it could safely be our mid-40s. At first I was taken aback — was this too risky? By the time we gave notice to our employers in early 2025, however, we both felt certain in the rightness and soundness of our decision. So we took the leap with confidence — him in April 2025, and me at the end of December!
Q. Has anything about early retirement been harder—or more satisfying!—than you expected?
Let’s start with harder.
It’s been challenging to realize that not all stress and anxiety disappears when work disappears. Yes, my work was my single largest source of both stress and anxiety — by far. And yes, without work my stress and anxiety levels have markedly diminished. I am a happier, healthier person in retirement, hands down.
That said… I think we all have a native, baseline stress or anxiety level, and our clever little brains are going to direct it at something. Now that work isn’t absorbing that native, baseline stress and anxiety, I sometimes find myself getting worked up about non-issues. It’s a classic first-world problem. It’s human nature. And I am working on it. [Life is inherently unpredictable and stressful. Kids and pets get sick. Houses continue to get dirty. Vehicles break down. Paperwork needs to be filled out. Those day-to-day stressors don’t disappear. And I suspect that, similar to time, when you no longer have to triage extremely stressful work situations, there’s more bandwidth to notice and react to life stressors you might not have had time to pay much attention to before.]
And now, more satisfying! I’m spending so much more time with my boys, and although I knew it would be wonderful — I didn’t realize just how deeply soul-satisfying it would be. I adore getting after-school hugs from these giant man-children. I love hearing them “spill the tea” about school social issues. And joking with them? Priceless. [I think this is SUCH a great age to have more time with kids. No shade to the toddler/preschool/elementary years, but parenting little kids is exhausting and so hands-on. Now you get to engage with them as mini-adults which is, for me at least, a far more appealing stage of parenting! I realize preferred parenting stages are highly subjective, but we have a similar age structure in our family and this is definitely my favourite phase so far. I do not miss diapers or high chairs or wrangling children in and out of car seats. Or managing naps. How I loathed naps!!!]
Parenting note that some might disagree with, but that works for us: if you don’t flip out about infrequent, low-grade profanity, it signals to teens that they can relax with you, and they just might be more willing to hang out together.
Q. What do you miss about your legal career… and what are you delighted never to do again?
Apart from the cafeteria salad bar? (Seriously, so good…)
Ok. At the risk of being a walking cliche, I do miss the people. The lawyers in my practice group were extraordinarily smart and funny. We laughed a lot as a group. Being surrounded by really sharp people who are on top of their game has its benefits. It’s fun, and it keeps you intellectually agile.
But what am I delighted never to do again? Basically any core “practicing law” task. Is that terrible? Maybe, but it’s honest! I am delighted that I will never again quibble with opposing counsel at a deposition, or worry about how a judge is going to rule on a motion, or stress about the perfect nuance of how to present complex issues to a jury. I am beyond thrilled that Zoom and Teams are in the past. Parts of being a lawyer were interesting, but litigation is an hours-heavy, conflict-oriented, win/lose field. I found that super stressful and am thrilled to be free of it!
Q. What’s one thing your family spends generously on in retirement, and one thing you remain surprisingly frugal about?
The single largest line item in our annual spending is travel. Even though I’m pretty points-and-miles savvy, we still spend heavily in this area. But I’m happy with our approach! We have such a limited number of years before our kids fledge the nest. I want to build memories of fantastic adventures together.
But there are plenty of areas where I’m pretty frugal! Exhibit 1: I cut my own hair. Our local salon is lovely, but I couldn’t stomach spending $100 with tip on my simple cut. So once or twice a year, I rewatch a YouTube video on cutting long layers and then have at it. Exhibit 2: I shop exclusively second-hand for my clothing. Think Goodwill, not the Real Real. It’s a frugal practice, although my rationale is more environmental. There’s so much clothing in thrift stores; why add to the aggregate demand for new stuff? Plus, it’s so fun! [First, your hair is AMAZING. Aside from maybe three professional cuts, I’ve done all my husband’s hair trims since we got married. He loves the convenience of not leaving the house, and it has undoubtedly saved us many thousands of dollars at this point. I recently branched out and cut my son’s hair and trimmed my daughter’s, too. Apparently I’m running a family salon now.]
Q. What would you say to someone who loves the idea of financial independence but worries that aggressively saving for the future might diminish their enjoyment of life today?
A few things:
- Pursuing financial independence is not “either/or”, “all or nothing”, binary, etc. Pursuing financial independence is not a misery game where you cut everything to the bone and sacrifice joy today for money tomorrow. It’s an efficiency game, where you optimize for well-being in all periods of life. Play around with toggling your spending levers up and down, to see where you can economize without reducing quality of life. Unless you’re really clinging to the edge of an economic cliff, you probably have areas where the spending is reflexive, habitual, or low-key performative… but doesn’t really bring great satisfaction. Those purchases do not earn the right to your hard-earned dollars! Once you begin to identify low-value spending, your frugality muscle strengthens, and you’re more likely to find additional ways to cut spending without diminishing your joy. [Yes, yes, yes!!! I think a lot about spending ROI, and it varies dramatically from person to person. I think many of us spend money on things we feel compelled to enjoy without realizing how individual that equation is. Fancy restaurants do very little for me. I feel borderline panic over the price tag and often don’t even enjoy the food very much. But I’ll happily take my kids to an amusement park because I know the ROI will almost certainly be high… for us.]
- Zero in on what truly brings you enjoyment today. Once you do that, it’s easier to cut that low-value, non-joy spending. What brings us joy? Here’s a hint from decades of rigorous positive psychology research and thousands of years of philosophical inquiry: it’s not stuff; it’s meaningful relationships and a sense that what we’re doing matters. Once we’ve covered our basic needs (shelter, food, security), that walk in the sunshine with someone you love will bring so much more enjoyment than the newest “glass skin” facial serums from Sephora.
- Remember that you’re not doing this for some Anonymous Other, you’re doing it for Future You! Saving for the “future you” is saving for you! The next five, ten, fifty years are going to pass… you can enjoy your life more today by giving yourself the peace of mind that Future You is financially secure.
Q. What’s one unpopular FIRE opinion you hold and/or one common FIRE principle you disagree with?
The extreme versions of FIRE rub me the wrong way, but I’d venture that they rub most FIRE people the wrong way!
By extreme versions of FIRE, I mean two things:
First, in the accumulation phase: cutting spending to the bone and sacrificing all joy today for the idea of retiring early. Life is meant to be lived; it’s not worth being miserable for a decade to free yourself of work. It’s all about balance! Heck, our kids visited 17 countries before we retired early, because we wanted to enjoy life along the way! I would not have skipped those trips to retire a little earlier.
Second, in the drawdown phase: FIREing at a “Lean FIRE” level (around a $1 million portfolio) and expecting to live on inflation-adjusted $40k-or-so annually strikes me as scary and maybe even foolish. Lean FIRE folks are massively limiting their options going forward. Maybe they’re more spartan and less risk averse than I, but I worry about Lean FIRE folks being able to live happily for the long term.
That said, both of these categories of folks are pretty fringe among the FIRE devotees. Most FIRE people I’ve met or learned from online are wonderfully balanced and thoughtful in their approaches to life and spending. After all, the whole goal is joy!
Q. Has retiring changed your identity more than you expected? How do you respond when people ask what you do?
I’ve been surprised at how FEW people have asked this question! In the rare times when someone has asked “what do you do?” the response is something along the lines of: “I was a litigator at a big law firm for almost 20 years, before my husband and I both retired early last year. Now we both do lots of creative projects and volunteering and spend tons of time with our kids.” [Love it! An honest, clear answer that ticks all the boxes without requiring a complicated existential explanation.]
On the question of identity, another surprise… at how very little retiring has changed my identity. The blogosphere and podcast world are filled with people sharing about serious identity crises after retiring, right? It’s totally understandable, especially for people who’ve been pretty intense career focused. Who are they when the job goes away?
I listened and tried to learn from their experiences. So, for the decade or so before retirement, I did the hard work of divorcing my identity as a human being from my title of “lawyer.” By working to really, deeply realize that “what you do” is not “who you are,” I’ve been able to retire with a stable identity.
Q. You wanted calm, unhurried time with your family. What has that actually looked like in ordinary daily life? What do your kids think of having retired parents?!
The dream has become reality!
What it actually looks like: I’m a much better listener now; I’m not rushing through conversations to get back to billable work. The kids get picked up from school — often with a treat in the car waiting for them — rather than being forced to ride the very slow bus home. I’m at every basketball game, rather than phoning in from some conference room in San Francisco to see how the game went. And the frequency of “snapping” at family members has basically gone to zero. Overall, I feel much more present in the moment than ever before.
The kids are BIG fans of the retired versions of their parents! They say we laugh and smile more, seem happier, and are “way funnier” than we used to be.
Eliminating time scarcity and major sources of stress? 10/10 recommend!
Q. Has retirement affected the rhythms or expectations within your marriage?
Yes — in a few ways.
First, I’m much more helpful around the house. Let’s be honest: my husband picked up a lot of the domestic labor because my job was so demanding. His was demanding too, but he didn’t travel for work. That means that he did the lion’s share of kid logistics and transport, all of our cooking, and all pet care. Then there was the eight month period when he was retired, and I was still working. Even more responsibility fell on the poor man! Now that we’re both retired, I’m able to pull my weight at home.
Second, our collective stress level is so much lower that we’re able to relax into our time together much more easily than before. Our walks aren’t filled with griping about whatever work crises we’re handling. We can just… enjoy each other.
One small negative: working towards early retirement is a Grand Unifying Goal, and we really enjoyed designing our exit strategies together. Now that we’ve both retired, I’m looking for the next Grand Unifying Goal for us to obsess about together. Taking suggestions! [I get this! There was a similar feeling of letdown after our big Europe trip. Obviously that wasn’t as long-reaching as working toward early retirement, but it was a unifying family goal and experience, and there’s a tiny sense of loss now that it’s over. Achieving the giant goal creates the slightly inconvenient problem of needing another goal!]
Q. Are you naturally good at leaving open space in your calendar, or have you started filling retirement with new projects and commitments?
It’s been a journey!
For the first few months, I had a push/pull feeling about open space on the calendar. Part of me tried to fill the hours with structured projects and “worthy” activities (read: multiple volunteer gigs, lots of writing, highly-inflexible gym time). At the same time, I became irrationally angry any time something appeared on my calendar… even though I was the one who put it on the calendar!
After a good bit of reflection, I came to two realizations. First, I realized that my anger at hard-landscape responsibilities came from a scarcity mindset. My brain still hadn’t fully recognized that this “break” from work was permanent, and that I wouldn’t have to return to the office. But the break is permanent. There is no office to return to! And as a result, I don’t have to hoard my time. [Of course your nervous system needs some time to wind down after such an intense career. This feels like a natural cascade of emotions to cycle through before your brain and body truly grasp the fact that you’re retired and have… a LOT of time autonomy now. Twenty years of hurry hurry hurry doesn’t immediately evaporate!]
Second, I came to accept that I didn’t need to earn any kind of scheduling “gold stars” by filling all my time with “worthy” activities. It’s OK to set a few aims for the day, work on them as long as they’re giving you satisfaction, and step away when the fun dries up.
Now, my calendar remains fairly open — while at the same time, my days remain fairly busy. It’s a great balance!
Q. How has your relationship with ambition and goal-setting changed?
The quick summary is: I care way, way less about ambition and goal-setting than ever before. This is from a woman who has been pretty damn obsessed with goals and optimization and various forms of achievement for decades.
At first, caring less about setting and tracking and achieving goals can be a little jarring — I felt a bit mentally unmoored. But I let myself “feel my feelings” and have come to a realization: part of my obsession with goals was grasping for control. I wanted distraction from my anxiety about career issues. I couldn’t control how a call with opposing counsel would go, but I could control whether I made and completed a Fall Fun List. Now that my major stressor is gone (and yes, career was my major stressor!), the need for goal-based control has waned. [Isn’t it interesting how our desire for control—this is a major thing for me, too—has to find some outlet? When my kids were little, I couldn’t control their sleep, but I would try to control so many other things about their schedules. When big things are out of my control, I tend to default to controlling smaller things instead. I’m a lot better about this now, in part because one of my biggest stressors was parenting small children, which is basically an extended exercise in unpredictability. I can relate to this on so many levels.]
I still have plenty of goals and aims and desires, but I hold them all a little lighter and more joyfully — and I’m happier for it.
Q. Last time, you described gratitude as leaping from one small delight to another. What small delights are filling your days lately? And, would you define gratitude any differently now?
Leaping from one small delight to another is such a joyful way to embrace gratitude!
A few of the small delights filling my days now:
- Hugs from my boys. They are so strong, and so big (truly: 6’1” and 6’4” and still growing!), but they remain cool and confident enough that they will hug their mama. They are the most emotionally healthy and loving people I’ve ever had the joy to know, and my heart is absolutely happiest when we’re hugging. [Oh my days, that is TALL. I swear every time I look at my tween he’s grown another inch and all his pants are capris, despite the fact I bought them approximately five minutes ago. I don’t know if he’ll crack six feet, but I’m certain he’ll be taller than me in the not-so-distant future and I’m not quite sure my heart is ready for that! We also have one very enthusiastic hugger—and bedtime snuggler—in our family, and I will happily take those cuddles for as long as they’re on offer.]
- Long walks with our dogs. With all this flexible time, we can now take the dogs on walks lasting an hour or more. Let the pup choose the route, let them sniff for as long as they want, and know that they’re happier and healthier for it!
- Family dinner. We make family dinner happen six days per week. This involves some crazy machinations with sports schedules, but it’s a core part of our family identity.
- Relaxed jaunts to the library. I finally have time to make a tall “TBR” stack and actually plow through it! The now-unhurried discovery process at the library — especially with a cold drink in hand — fills me with delight.
Q. Your podcast is called The Reframe. What are you currently trying to reframe in your own life?
I’m still reframing my relationship with time. For decades, my M.O. was to do things quickly while fighting a sense of time scarcity. Now that my time is my own, I’m trying to quiet the nervous system and move at a more relaxed pace. It’s a work in progress, but I’m making strides!
Q. Are there any downsides to retiring in your 40s, or parts of the transition people don’t talk about enough?
Not that I’ve experienced personally, but I’ve heard some others say this: If you’re extroverted, the weekdays can be a little isolating. If you’re an early retiree, most of your friends and peers are working, and you’re no longer around colleagues all day — so if you need social stimulation, finding it may be a tall order.
As an introvert, I’ve had zero problem with this. First, it’s not so isolating! My husband and Mom are both around during the day; I have great camaraderie with folks at the food bank where I volunteer weekly; I see other sports parents between two and five nights per week; and several friends work remotely so in theory could get together for a lunchtime walk.
Second, because Monday through Friday work is no longer wearing down my social battery, I have more energy for weekend socialization when folks are around. I used to be tempted to cancel weekend plans. Now, they’re more fun.
Q. Some careers make FIRE much more attainable than others. Which principles from minimalism or financial independence can still benefit someone whose income makes very early retirement unrealistic?
This is a good point, and one that we really need to acknowledge! In the FIRE space, too many people try to be cheerleaders and say “anyone can do this!” Although it’s well-intentioned encouragement, I think it’s accidentally cruel. If you tell someone that they can retire early on a teacher’s salary if they just employ self-discipline, that’s radically downplaying basic economic reality. Life is expensive. You can only cut so many corners, and even then — if the salary is low enough, FIRE just won’t be an option. Nobody should feel guilt or shame if FIRE simply won’t work for them.
That said, I believe the core principles of minimalism and financial independence — values-based spending paired with living below your means — can be hugely helpful to folks all along the income spectrum, because they build our financial resilience. Even if you plan to work to 75, it’s valuable to reduce your financial fragility along the way, so that you can weather the inevitable economic storms.
So, what are these things? Values-based spending basically comes down to:
- thoughtfully, honestly identifying what spending brings true value to your life (read: this is not what looks good, or what “people like us” do, or what your parents might expect);
- targeting your spending towards these areas; and
- ruthlessly cutting spending everywhere else.
When we go full-bore on values-based spending, we’ll often realize that we can live below our means and invest the difference in simple, low-fee index funds. This is critical, because it helps build financial stability (aka, reduce financial fragility). When you build financial stability, you can weather the layoff, or going part time, or the medical emergency. So anyone should feel free to ignore the “RE” part of “FIRE” — but the FI principles? Those are for everyone!
Q. Has retirement changed the way you travel or the kinds of trips you hope to take?
Every trip I’ve taken since retiring was planned and booked before retirement, so the simple answer is “not yet.”
That said, I’m sensing a change in outlook that might influence the way we travel.
What’s the change? Well, we’re less stressed out — and we’re happier with everyday life — which means that the insatiable desire for escapism-via-travel seems to be waning. We’re not worn out with constant work travel and client meetings and endless hours on Zoom. When a high-stress job is your day-to-day, booking a weekend getaway is sanity saving. But now that every day is fun and self-directed, I don’t feel the urge to be constantly booking trips.
That said, we’re still enthusiastically scheduling the “big rocks” trips. I’m currently planning a multi-week trip to Southeast Asia, and we have a big hiking-and-resort adventure set for next spring. Part of our early retirement plan included budgeting for extensive, exciting travel. And now we can do it without worrying about time off, work deadlines, or leaving colleagues holding the bag on projects!
Q. What adventures and experiences are at the top of your Five-Year Wish List?
That big trip to Southeast Asia, for one!
Five years is an interesting time frame, because we’re entering the last five years of having kids in the house full-time. So rather than being a Travel Dictator, I’m trying to really listen to my kids, to understand what they want to do in these years together.
That’s part of why we did the Colorado Rockies this summer — my oldest wanted to have some mountain man adventures. They’re both interested in the Pacific Northwest too, so I want to build that into the schedule. At least one has mentioned the Dolomites, the other seems to have a craving for Scandinavia, and we all want to go back to Japan — so these will be some pretty busy years! Obviously we’ll continue having adventures together when the boys are in college and beyond. But these next five years with everyone under a single roof are extra precious.
I’ve also recognized that my mom’s window for travel is becoming narrower, and that she needs to travel at a different pace than my energetic teens. So this year, I took her to Ireland for 10 days — and next year, we’re returning to Italy together for a magical trip. She needs to feel loved, appreciated — and like her world isn’t closing in. Taking her on tailored trips, paced for her needs, checks all of these boxes. [I love this realization that even though travel will hopefully continue with your family for decades to come, it will never look exactly the way it does right now. Why wait? I don’t think many people regret the trips—or insert whatever meaningful adventure applies to them—they actually took. But I know plenty of people who regret the trips they never took.]
Q. If you unexpectedly found yourself with an entirely free day and perfect weather, how would you spend it?
Funny you ask, because I’m actually planning one of these days for the fall!
October is perfection in this part of the world, but for many years I had really extensive work travel in October. So this year, being HOME in October will be extra special! Really embracing “home” has been such a theme of settling into early retirement.
I’d love to pile the family into the car and drive West to the Shenandoah region, where we could enjoy gorgeous fall foliage on a hiking loop. Let’s make sure to pass by a few cool waterfalls, and to take lots of photos along the way. Since this is my fantasy, the kids are wearing something other than athletic gear, and somehow we take some fantastic family photos.
After we triumphantly reach the summit of our little East Coast “mountain,” we stroll down into a picture-perfect town with impossibly cute restaurants. We enjoy lunch outdoors, warmed by the sun, triumphant from our little victory. We explore the town for an hour or so — including a fair chunk of time in a bookstore — before driving home.
Come evening, we all gather on the couch for a big delicious dinner and a couple hours of quality TV (think The Wire, Breaking Bad, etc.). So basically: lots of movement, beautiful settings, delicious food, good stories, and most importantly — my favorite people. Perfection!
Is it a simple day? Sure. Achievable? Actually, pretty easily so. And just perfect, in my eyes? YES!
Q. What is one thing you now refuse to rush?
Grocery shopping!
I adore grocery shopping — finding just what we need (the perfect peach! beautiful basil!), exploring the aisles for cool new products, picking up little surprise treats for my kids. All of this is best enjoyed with a cool caffeinated beverage of choice and a podcast or audiobook saved for the occasion.
Before retiring, I adored the Saturday morning Wegmans trip. But I always felt harried. If you’ve ever shopped on Saturday mornings, you know that they’re crowded by 8 AM and devolve into chaos on Aisle 14 by 11 AM. Plus, so much other “life” needed to be crammed into those Saturday mornings. Grocery shopping felt rushed. I couldn’t relax and fully enjoy the process.
But now, the weekly stock-up can happen at mid-day on a Thursday. At that point, it’s just me and the 70-year-olds. I take my time, sip and shop and stroll. It is LOVELY.
Q. Which retirement stereotypes have you embraced, and which ones are you determined to resist?
Embracing? Well, I drive more like a retired granny now — at the speed limit, deliberate, generously waving people ahead of me. Without the constant drumbeat of hurry hurry hurry, I’m safer and kinder and less stressed behind the wheel. [I love how retirement has translated into a more relaxed pace in so many different areas of your life… including more courteous driving.]
Resisting? The stereotype that retirees sink into unhealthy purposelessness. A good life is not built on golf alone — or endless vacations, or ladies’ lunches, or TV, or anything that’s basically experiential junk food.
I’m actively curating a very meaningful life that’s full of all the best stuff — but still unhurried. This means volunteering (at a food bank, and on my city’s economic development authority), spending focused time with my family, moving my body, and being part of the community. Retirement rocks!
Q. If you had your career and financial planning to do over again, would you change anything?
I’ve thought about this a lot. At the risk of sounding simple minded… not really?
Part of this is a philosophical position. I find regret to be a pretty low-value emotion in most circumstances. But part of it is… I think we did a pretty damn fine job along the way!
On career: I worked a very challenging job for a very long time. It’s reasonable to ask “do you wish you’d worked fewer hours, but for longer?” The answer is an unequivocal no. I’m a “front load the pain” kind of gal. In high school I did homework on Friday afternoons to have the weekend free; and as a lawyer I worked hard for a compressed number of years to buy back my time. I wanted to do the work, do it well, and get out. I knew that — the way my mind works, at least — working 70-80% as hard would be 100% as stressful. So why draw out the pain?
On the financial planning side, also no regrets. There are things we could have done differently for sure — as I outlined in my podcast episode 102 “We Retired at 44 & 45… Despite These Mistakes” — but those “mistakes” aren’t things I regret.
For example, we spent a huge amount of money on restaurants for years. But it was a survival mechanism during the little kid + mid-career era. We needed to make life easier. Those wasted and overpriced grilled cheeses for 2 and 4 year olds gave us a little sanity respite during the weekends, after a seemingly unending series of really tough weeks.
I also don’t have any regrets about our more frugal choices — I don’t feel like we missed out on anything. Yes, we mostly flew economy. No, I didn’t buy $1000 dresses and shoes (or $5000 bags!) the way many of my colleagues did. But we still traveled plenty, and I still had fun with fashion!
Finally, regarding investment strategy, we never fell into the traps of high-fee fund managers or private bankers. That means we kept our returns for ourselves — and that’s something I’m extraordinarily pleased about!
So in sum: no regrets. Our decisions were imperfect, but overall they were pretty good, and we got where we wanted, when we wanted.
Q. In five sentences or less, describe an average day for you in early retirement.
- Wake up with joy.
- Pour into my people.
- Move with purpose, but not with hurry.
- Appreciate small blessings and beauties.
- Breathe deeply with peace.
I loved getting to chat with Kathleen from the other side of early retirement. So much of what she shared comes back to the same themes that resonated with me in our first conversation: paying attention to what actually matters, using money as a tool rather than an end goal, and being intentional about how we spend our very finite time.
And I especially appreciated her highlighting that retirement hasn’t turned out to be some magical land devoid of stress, responsibilities, or overflowing calendars. Life is still life! But having more autonomy over your time—and more space for the people and experiences you value most—sounds wonderful.
Your turn!!
- Do you have specific questions for Kathleen? Leave them in the comment section below and she’ll pop by to answer them.
- What’s something in your current life you wish you could stop rushing?
- If you could retire tomorrow, what would you most look forward to—and what do you think you’d miss?
- Does the idea of early retirement appeal to you, or do you genuinely enjoy the structure and purpose of working?
- What’s one area where you’re happy to spend generously because the “ROI” is high for you?
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As a fellow FIREe, it’s always fascinating to me to read how others retired early. I can relate to so many things Kathleen mentioned!
Learning to SLOW down is a big transition. After years of “hurry, hurry, hurry,” it makes sense that your brain doesn’t immediately understand that the time scarcity is gone. And I loved Kathleen’s point about not needing to fill every free hour with “worthy” activities. That is probably a harder lesson than it sounds!
One of the things I enjoy most now is having time to do fun things during the weekdays. We can avoid the weekend crowds, too, which has added so much to our quality of life.